Starting to doubt AutographWorld

[Dominic]

As an autograph collector for many years, I'm starting to doubt th
authenticity of AutographWorld and their merchandise. They currentl
have many autographs of A-list celebrities and those who are considere
rare signers. Between the Ebay auction, value and original auctions eac
week you see recurring celebrities in great numbers.

Michael Madsen who does not sign often has appeared many times thes
past few weeks. George Clooney, who although is a great in-perso
signer, has about 8 autographs up this week, not to mention th
considerable amount these past few weeks as well. Robert De Niro an
Bruce Willis, who rarely sign have been seen yet again. These ar
simply a few people who raise cause for concern for me.

As stated, I'm really beginning to question them as a credibl
autograph dealer. Any thoughts


--
Dominic

[Bob]

Dominic,

Michael Madsen is far from rare, he has done a couple of comic cons as
well as doing the memorabilia show in the UK about a year ago.

For the record I know for a fact they buy in bulk. They don't wait in
line like you or I would, they simply cut deals to buy in volume and
supply their own pictures. Trust me, someone like Madsen has no
problem signing a huge stack of photos in private in his room or a
separate room for 25,000.00 and only have to meet 2 or 3 people
instead of 1200. You are probably thinking, there is no way they buy
25,000 worth or product but they do, they simply split the costs among
several other dealers’ large dealers who pool their money to
negotiate a cut rate price instead of the 20 or 30 the star would
have charged us.

As for De Niro, Clooney or Jodie Foster, I see your point but before
calling them out you could simply call them and ask them or tell them
your concern. JD happily answers the phone and I have had long
conversations about all aspects of the business with him.

Or look at it like this, there are a lot of people who sell
autographs, but there are really only a handful out here that most
people deal with, Autographworld being one of the larger ones. If you
were one of those full time stalkers I mean autograph chasers in LA or
NY, who would you look to sell your autographs to? You really can’t
stake out celebs and spend all your time on ebay so you need to whole
sale them out, would you call Joe Blo 8x10’s or some like
Autographworld or Iconographs or someone major like that?

My guess is they are paying better for those high end items then most
dealers because they do a better business, look at their auction
results. AW at one time had 3 ebay id’s, I remember two of them, a
quick look has them over 23,000 positives, they have a strong website
that issues you a bidder id when you pay through them, improving the
chances that you will bid with them on their auctions.

The Deniro you mention has a bidder id of 17286, that’s over 17000
people right there that have a bidder is and can bid. That’s strong
demand. You also have to look at it this way, they have a very large
international clientele that bid on their items. Several people have
mentioned that they get to much for their auctions, but you have to
know currency rates to know that’s not really the case. Case in point,
if the Deniro goes 100.00 US that’s a lot of money, but if you are
buying from Europe and do the math that’s roughly 65.00 Euro’s which
is a far better deal, so although some prices seem high it’s because
of the weak US dollar that adds to that the price. Not to say someone
from the US may have bid on that and is willing to pay that.

Oh and as for Willis, you can check my early posts but he has been
here all summer on and off filming a movie in Worcester and Lynn and
local reports are that he was signing. There are a few autograph
dealers/collectors here that were chasing him.

You should always question people and sources but you shouldn’t be
afraid to ask the source, call them yourself. Also I don’t see any
others posts on here from you when I click on your id, is this a case
of competitive jealousy? You’re trying to call them out but who are
you??

Bob

[Dominic]

Bob

"Also I don’t see any
others posts on here from you when I click on your id, is this a case
of competitive jealousy? You’re trying to call them out but who are
you??"

I have been an avid collector, not stalker, for about 7 years; I do no
sell or own any sort of autograph company as AW, so let us not resort t
pot-shots of new members. I am simply raising an issue I have as well a
other colleagues of mine whom happen to be collectors are debating. A
with your point pertaining to auction results and the high number o
positive feedback, some may argue that the individuals who ar
continually bidding/winning the said items are unaware the may hav
purchased fakes, thus becoming return buyers and padding the positiv
ratings.

The value that an auction may go for is not in question, despite th
many ebay and value auctions listed do tend to sell at a fairly lo
price. How do you know for a fact that they buy in bulk? Do they buy i
bulk as you have stated? They may, but surely they cannot buy everyon
in great volume as many celebrities do not attend Chiller shows sinc
their "hollywood star" remains strong. Again, those we dub "A-list
celebrities have become frequent on AW and that leads me to hav
reservations about their authenticity.

I have contacted AW via e-mail and they offered assurance that th
autographs are indeed authentic and that these given celebrities ten
to frequently sign. When a household name is seen with 8 auction
currently, 2-3 in the past week, and other 1 the week before and othe
2 the week before that etc., it becomes questionable. And for one wh
does not question the availability of the actor/actress, he or she i
buying on impulse and does not realize fakes may be circulating
Outside of one's word, no other proof may be given or offered.

It is not my intention to committ any sort of libel agains
AutographWorld, I am simply concerned as to what they are selling.


Dominic

Post by Bob
Dominic,
Michael Madsen is far from rare, he has done a couple of comic cons as
well as doing the memorabilia show in the UK about a year ago.
For the record I know for a fact they buy in bulk. They don't wait in
line like you or I would, they simply cut deals to buy in volume and
supply their own pictures. Trust me, someone like Madsen has no
problem signing a huge stack of photos in private in his room or a
separate room for 25,000.00 and only have to meet 2 or 3 people
instead of 1200. You are probably thinking, there is no way they buy
25,000 worth or product but they do, they simply split the costs among
several other dealers’ large dealers who pool their money to
negotiate a cut rate price instead of the 20 or 30 the star would
have charged us.
As for De Niro, Clooney or Jodie Foster, I see your point but before
calling them out you could simply call them and ask them or tell them
your concern. JD happily answers the phone and I have had long
conversations about all aspects of the business with him.
Or look at it like this, there are a lot of people who sell
autographs, but there are really only a handful out here that most
people deal with, Autographworld being one of the larger ones. If you
were one of those full time stalkers I mean autograph chasers in LA or
NY, who would you look to sell your autographs to? You really can’t
stake out celebs and spend all your time on ebay so you need to whole
sale them out, would you call Joe Blo 8x10’s or some like
Autographworld or Iconographs or someone major like that?
My guess is they are paying better for those high end items then most
dealers because they do a better business, look at their auction
results. AW at one time had 3 ebay id’s, I remember two of them, a
quick look has them over 23,000 positives, they have a strong website
that issues you a bidder id when you pay through them, improving the
chances that you will bid with them on their auctions.
The Deniro you mention has a bidder id of 17286, that’s over 17000
people right there that have a bidder is and can bid. That’s strong
demand. You also have to look at it this way, they have a very large
international clientele that bid on their items. Several people have
mentioned that they get to much for their auctions, but you have to
know currency rates to know that’s not really the case. Case in point,
if the Deniro goes 100.00 US that’s a lot of money, but if you are
buying from Europe and do the math that’s roughly 65.00 Euro’s which
is a far better deal, so although some prices seem high it’s because
of the weak US dollar that adds to that the price. Not to say someone
from the US may have bid on that and is willing to pay that.
Oh and as for Willis, you can check my early posts but he has been
here all summer on and off filming a movie in Worcester and Lynn and
local reports are that he was signing. There are a few autograph
dealers/collectors here that were chasing him.
You should always question people and sources but you shouldn’t be
afraid to ask the source, call them yourself. Also I don’t see any
others posts on here from you when I click on your id, is this a case
of competitive jealousy? You’re trying to call them out but who are
you??
Bob

[Bob]

Dominic,

Well lets start with my posting activity, click on view my profile and
you will see this

And this is only on the public groups

Post Activity
Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2006 22 20 18 21 17 1 5 1
2007 5 5 7 4 3 20 2 2 5 5 7 4
2008 6 5 1 9 15 18 19 15 1

As for AW buying in bulk,
1) all you need to do is ask them,
2) if you know who they are and what they sell you can see where it
comes from. Forinstance the items from the London shows can be easily
traced back to the organizers of tthe shows.
3) You will see other highly respected dealers with the same items/
inscriptions/photos
4) Email the other dealers and ask them where they got them from and
ask them if they bought in bulk with JD
5) You can email the organizers such as autografica and ask them.
6) Look at the photos of them with the starts, match the outfits and
surroundings to the shows and notice the stack of signed photos
7) Ask the stars themselves

All of which I have done and recomend all buyers do as part of their
due dilegence, I'm assuming you haven't done this based on your
questions, especially about Madsen.

And you meed to read more closely, As I said if you were one of those
stalkers who chase celebs, (this does not apply to regular collectors)
but to professionals who do this for a living, again who would you see
to? one of the largest guys who will pay you the most or someone small
with modest means.

Also I refered to their feedback to help explain how the bidding
system works when you sign in to pay them. Again you need to read more
closely.

I'm not taking pot shots at you, however if you knew how these groups
work you would know that alot of dealers or wanne be's will sign in,
take shots and leave. We refer to them as trolls.

Also the UACC has a vetting process for complaints and they have a web
site that Registered Dealers can sell on and where they can verify
each others goods when placed for sale. Do you think the would ruin a
multi million dollar business and risk substantial jail time for a
phoney 20.00 Madsen or a 100 dollar Deniro.

Also you may want to check out JD 1st, not only does he own AW with
Bob, but he is also a well respected member of the UACC members group,
a director of the group, hugely respected by other dealers (just email
some and ask them, you should always do before buying from anyone) and
a former member of his local school comittee, not a fly by night
autograph dealer on Ebay. His website, albeit mostly build in house I
beleive has probabley several hundred thousand dollars in man hours
into it. Because you would need to pay a good developer atleast
125,000 a year to build, run and and maintain that site. I know
because I have employeed several where I work and again you don't put
that kind of money into 25.00 dollar fakes.

Bob

[Sue H]

Bob, LOL I was with you till below... if you are paying that much, my
son needs a job! He's got a degree in 3D animation and knows script
and can program games and such... he'd probably work for a lot less
too.


His website, albeit mostly build in house I

Post by Bob
beleive has probabley several hundred thousand dollars in man hours
into it. Because you would need to pay a good developer atleast
125,000 a year to build, run and and maintain that site. I know
because I have employeed several where I work and again you don't put
that kind of money into 25.00 dollar fakes.
Bob

[Max@MGMemorabilia]

Michael Madsen is far from rare, he has done a couple of comic cons as
well as doing the memorabilia show in the UK about a year ago.

FYI - he cancelled his appearence at that show as I was wanting a Kill Bill
sword signing and was gutted... Also bought a load of 8x10's :-(

[a***@gmail.com]

Post the links to the exact ones you are talking about. I've gotten
in-person graphs from them all. The fact that you are questioning
them on a Clooney autograph is a little worrysome. If any legit
dealer doesn't have a constant supply of Clooney then something is
wrong with them. He's not just nice, he's incredible so to have 8 up
at once really isn't a big deal, it's almost required in some cases
when you load up your staff to get him in person with 10-15 each.
It's exactly this situation which led me to have all of my higher end
items PSA authenticated. Having so many hard to get stars doesn't
always add to a large dealer's name, it sometimes threatens it.
People forget that as large dealers, we gain resources over the years,
gain better access, and have more opportunities at these tougher
stars. I do understand your side though, you see these names and know
they are tough to the average collector but at the same time, if your
job was to secure these names on a daily basis and this was your
profession, your career, is it really unthinkable that with
connections in LA and NY that you'd have this supply regularly. Not
at all. I seriously doubt one of the top UACC Registered Dealers who
has created solid connections over the years to all top names is going
to joepardize their name and business with a George Clooney overstock
or a few of the names you mention which are not as hard to get as most
think. Just my 2 cents.

Michael Kasmar
www.AutographPros.com

As an autograph collector for many years, I'm starting to doubt the
authenticity of AutographWorld and their merchandise. They currently
have many autographs of A-list celebrities and those who are considered
rare signers. Between the Ebay auction, value and original auctions each
week you see recurring celebrities in great numbers.
Michael Madsen who does not sign often has appeared many times these
past few weeks. George Clooney, who although is a great in-person
signer, has about 8 autographs up this week, not to mention the
considerable amount these past few weeks as well. Robert De Niro and
Bruce Willis, who rarely sign have been seen yet again. These are
simply a few people who raise cause for concern for me.
As stated, I'm really beginning to question them as a credible
autograph dealer. Any thoughts?
--
Dominic

[Sue H]

Yeah, even I have a clooney. My friend met him in person and asked
for friends and he just signed them and dedicated them too. He doesn't
care; which is why he ranks in my book as not only a classy actor, but
a classy person as well.

Post by a***@gmail.com
Post the links to the exact ones you are talking about. I've gotten
in-person graphs from them all. The fact that you are questioning
them on a Clooney autograph is a little worrysome. If any legit
dealer doesn't have a constant supply of Clooney then something is
wrong with them. He's not just nice, he's incredible so to have 8 up
at once really isn't a big deal, it's almost required in some cases
when you load up your staff to get him in person with 10-15 each.
It's exactly this situation which led me to have all of my higher end
items PSA authenticated. Having so many hard to get stars doesn't
always add to a large dealer's name, it sometimes threatens it.
People forget that as large dealers, we gain resources over the years,
gain better access, and have more opportunities at these tougher
stars. I do understand your side though, you see these names and know
they are tough to the average collector but at the same time, if your
job was to secure these names on a daily basis and this was your
profession, your career, is it really unthinkable that with
connections in LA and NY that you'd have this supply regularly. Not
at all. I seriously doubt one of the top UACC Registered Dealers who
has created solid connections over the years to all top names is going
to joepardize their name and business with a George Clooney overstock
or a few of the names you mention which are not as hard to get as most
think. Just my 2 cents.
Michael Kasmar
www.AutographPros.com

As an autograph collector for many years, I'm starting to doubt the
authenticity of AutographWorld and their merchandise. They currently
have many autographs of A-list celebrities and those who are considered
rare signers. Between the Ebay auction, value and original auctions each
week you see recurring celebrities in great numbers.
Michael Madsen who does not sign often has appeared many times these
past few weeks. George Clooney, who although is a great in-person
signer, has about 8 autographs up this week, not to mention the
considerable amount these past few weeks as well. Robert De Niro and
Bruce Willis, who rarely sign have been seen yet again. These are
simply a few people who raise cause for concern for me.
As stated, I'm really beginning to question them as a credible
autograph dealer. Any thoughts?
--
Dominic

[Dominic]

Michael,

I am not referring to a specific autograph, rather the quantity tha
has begun to surface these passed few weeks. I understand Clooney is
prolific signer as I have stated in my initial post, I myself hav
obtained an in-person autograph of him as well. This upsurge of newl
posted autographs may very well be attributed to the recent promotin
of his new film, but one cannot disagree that the numerous items prio
to this week is questionable.

The point you made about this being the career of AW and thei
autograph seekers is vaild. Living in NYC, I understand what you mea
as I see them coming out in the dozens. But as Sue H. and Bob stated
one must always question the source. Johnny Depp is another grea
in-person signer, but to have many auctions week-in week-out i
something collectors need to look out for.

Dominic

Post by a***@gmail.com
Post the links to the exact ones you are talking about. I've gotten
in-person graphs from them all. The fact that you are questioning
them on a Clooney autograph is a little worrysome. If any legit
dealer doesn't have a constant supply of Clooney then something is
wrong with them. He's not just nice, he's incredible so to have 8 up
at once really isn't a big deal, it's almost required in some cases
when you load up your staff to get him in person with 10-15 each.
It's exactly this situation which led me to have all of my higher end
items PSA authenticated. Having so many hard to get stars doesn't
always add to a large dealer's name, it sometimes threatens it.
People forget that as large dealers, we gain resources over the years,
gain better access, and have more opportunities at these tougher
stars. I do understand your side though, you see these names and know
they are tough to the average collector but at the same time, if your
job was to secure these names on a daily basis and this was your
profession, your career, is it really unthinkable that with
connections in LA and NY that you'd have this supply regularly. Not
at all. I seriously doubt one of the top UACC Registered Dealers who
has created solid connections over the years to all top names is going
to joepardize their name and business with a George Clooney overstock
or a few of the names you mention which are not as hard to get as most
think. Just my 2 cents.
Michael Kasmar
www.AutographPros.com
wrote:-
As an autograph collector for many years, I'm starting to doubt the
authenticity of AutographWorld and their merchandise. They currently
have many autographs of A-list celebrities and those who ar
considered
rare signers. Between the Ebay auction, value and original auction
each
week you see recurring celebrities in great numbers.
Michael Madsen who does not sign often has appeared many times these
past few weeks. George Clooney, who although is a great in-person
signer, has about 8 autographs up this week, not to mention the
considerable amount these past few weeks as well. Robert De Niro and
Bruce Willis, who rarely sign have been seen yet again. These are
simply a few people who raise cause for concern for me.
As stated, I'm really beginning to question them as a credible
autograph dealer. Any thoughts?
--
Dominic

--
Dominic

[Sue H]

I felt like that before too but the simple fact is without proof
anything is going on, you can't put a negativity on them... they are
innocent till proven guilty. I agree with the tons of stuff and had
questioned in the past how come so many before. However, their items
look good.... so that's the primary thing. They told me how they get
their items and as long as the items are good, I see no reason to
doubt them because they have a lot of numbers of items. I do agree
though, on the surface, that is a question autograph collectors should
always consider and question. Bob said it too. He's right. But
unless there's proof of somethign wrong, you can't just assume because
they have a lot of something, it's amiss. If you got something else,
fine; till then, they get the benefit. Your opinion on this?

On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 03:36:48 +0100, Dominic

As an autograph collector for many years, I'm starting to doubt the
authenticity of AutographWorld and their merchandise. They currently
have many autographs of A-list celebrities and those who are considered
rare signers. Between the Ebay auction, value and original auctions each
week you see recurring celebrities in great numbers.
Michael Madsen who does not sign often has appeared many times these
past few weeks. George Clooney, who although is a great in-person
signer, has about 8 autographs up this week, not to mention the
considerable amount these past few weeks as well. Robert De Niro and
Bruce Willis, who rarely sign have been seen yet again. These are
simply a few people who raise cause for concern for me.
As stated, I'm really beginning to question them as a credible
autograph dealer. Any thoughts?

[l***@yahoo.com]

As an autograph collector for many years, I'm starting to doubt the
authenticity of AutographWorld and their merchandise.

No kidding. I'm surprised it took someone this long to post about it.

As stated, I'm really beginning to question them as a credible
autograph dealer. Any thoughts?

You're only beginning to realize what some already figured out years
ago.

[SignatureDomain]

As an autograph collector for many years, I'm starting to doubt the
authenticity of AutographWorld and their merchandise. They currently
have many autographs of A-list celebrities and those who are considered
rare signers. Between the Ebay auction, value and original auctions each
week you see recurring celebrities in great numbers.
Michael Madsen who does not sign often has appeared many times these
past few weeks. George Clooney, who although is a great in-person
signer, has about 8 autographs up this week, not to mention the
considerable amount these past few weeks as well. Robert De Niro and
Bruce Willis, who rarely sign have been seen yet again. These are
simply a few people who raise cause for concern for me.
As stated, I'm really beginning to question them as a credible
autograph dealer. Any thoughts?
--
Dominic

Dom - do yourself a big favor and stay away from AW. A few months
ago, I looked at the UACC registered dealer list for the first time in
many years. I was amazed at the 'dealers' listed there because I know
where many of them are getting their inventory. Last spring, a
recording executive in Guilford, CT purposely sold forgeries of 100's
of recording artists and film personalities to several UACC dealers
just to see who considered the forgeries as authentic. These dealers
just took it for granted that the signatures were authentic since this
well-known person owned the signed pieces. PSA/DNA authenticated
several as well. I and another collector are documenting the
transactions and plan to release the results sometime in the near
future.

[Gummby3]

That's interesting, regarding the executive. Did he/she ever come
clean about the forgeries that were sold and offer refunds to the
dealers? If not, the exec is guilty of selling forgeries. If these
forgeries were unknowingly resold by dealers, who purchased them on
good faith, the exec is now guilty of trafficking forged signatures.
Whether this was a test or not, and money exchanged hands, then a
crime has been committed. The exec, and most likely the recording
company, are just as guilty as the jerk that forges stacks of photos
in his kitchen for resale. If this even happened, I hope that this is
documented too and charges are filed on them too.
--
Mike
Gummby3
-= Star Collector =-
www.star-collector.net
Celebrity addresses the way they should be - free.


"SignatureDomain" <***@aol.com> wrote in message news:c671c2e8-a9d8-4de4-8624-***@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

Dom - do yourself a big favor and stay away from AW. A few months
ago, I looked at the UACC registered dealer list for the first time in
many years. I was amazed at the 'dealers' listed there because I know
where many of them are getting their inventory. Last spring, a
recording executive in Guilford, CT purposely sold forgeries of 100's
of recording artists and film personalities to several UACC dealers
just to see who considered the forgeries as authentic. These dealers
just took it for granted that the signatures were authentic since this
well-known person owned the signed pieces. PSA/DNA authenticated
several as well. I and another collector are documenting the
transactions and plan to release the results sometime in the near
future.

[Bob]

Mike,

Nice point!!!

We are supposed to believe the recording artist commited 100's of
felonies to prove that several UACC dealers didn't check their
sources. Yeah ok.

Show me the idiot who is willing to do 45 years in federal prison for
forgery, tax fraud (because he would have needed to pay unlce sam, or
did he?), trafficing illegal goods. copyright violations, since he I'm
sure didn't have the rights to the photos he printed to forge on and
I'll show you the winner of this years Darwin Award!

Sue,

If your son can build a website that is dynamic and can be intrigrated
with finanicial applications or in the case of AW one that can help
create a seamless auction type format that helps create revenue for a
company while being easy for non tech's to use, send him my way.

SignatureDomain

Use a real ID it carries more weight, last time your email address
showed up under profiles was last May in defense of Stickler.
***@aol.com

You're documenting the results, funny how would you do that??
Do you have access to the record exec? Did he meet with you and share
his plan (that would make you a conspirator in fraud), Did he send you
copies of the forgeries (and provide evidence of his own crimes), did
the UACC RD send you an interview, provide you with copies of their
checks and the autographs they bought and sold?

So which one are you really WOODWARD OR BERSTEIN, come on, come
clean.

Please don't sell me this BS.

Has AW or any other RD make mistakes, I'm sure, handle a 1000
autographs a month, 12 months a year, for 10 years or more and you are
bound to have an issue. Don't forget these guys do offer a money back
gaurantee for life, and unlike most sellers the RD program requires
them to send you a receipt, not a COA which is worthless, but a
receipt for use in court if you needed it.

Bob

[l***@yahoo.com]

Bob

Bob, you're part-owner of AutographWorld, so your vehement defense is
understandable. I have nothing more to post on this matter. A
hobbyist has to rely on their experience when wading through signed
auction lots and if you have decades of knowledge to fall back on,
then it makes the task of avoiding questionable signatures a lot
easier.

[Bob]

For the record, wrong Bob, Sue knows me, I don't own AW. Wish I did
though.

[Sue H]

I too thought it was Bob from AW... LOL I thought he'd be on here by
now and it kind of sounded like him!

Post by Bob
For the record, wrong Bob, Sue knows me, I don't own AW. Wish I did
though.

[Dominic]

Bob,

I think you are taking the information presented by SignatureDomai
personal. He is stating a vaild side to the arguement if he may provid
proof. Proof is what this whole thread has been about, proof AW canno
provide to their customers. I doubt a member will create an elaborat
story to simply "trash" a company. Lorriems24 is also backing claim
that AW is indeed selling fakes or forgeries.


Lorriems24,

Have you purchased autographs you believe or know are fake in the past
What are your basing your claims on that the items are fake?


Dominic

Post by Bob
Mike,
Nice point!!!
We are supposed to believe the recording artist commited 100's of
felonies to prove that several UACC dealers didn't check their
sources. Yeah ok.
Show me the idiot who is willing to do 45 years in federal prison for
forgery, tax fraud (because he would have needed to pay unlce sam, or
did he?), trafficing illegal goods. copyright violations, since he I'm
sure didn't have the rights to the photos he printed to forge on and
I'll show you the winner of this years Darwin Award!
Sue,
If your son can build a website that is dynamic and can be intrigrated
with finanicial applications or in the case of AW one that can help
create a seamless auction type format that helps create revenue for a
company while being easy for non tech's to use, send him my way.
SignatureDomain
Use a real ID it carries more weight, last time your email address
showed up under profiles was last May in defense of Stickler.
You're documenting the results, funny how would you do that??
Do you have access to the record exec? Did he meet with you and share
his plan (that would make you a conspirator in fraud), Did he send you
copies of the forgeries (and provide evidence of his own crimes), did
the UACC RD send you an interview, provide you with copies of their
checks and the autographs they bought and sold?
So which one are you really WOODWARD OR BERSTEIN, come on, come
clean.
Please don't sell me this BS.
Has AW or any other RD make mistakes, I'm sure, handle a 1000
autographs a month, 12 months a year, for 10 years or more and you are
bound to have an issue. Don't forget these guys do offer a money back
gaurantee for life, and unlike most sellers the RD program requires
them to send you a receipt, not a COA which is worthless, but a
receipt for use in court if you needed it.
Bo

--
Dominic

[Sue H]

AW may have to start videoing the stuff they get and including that
snippet with their COA's in order to help prove themselves more, but
short of that, NOBODY can do anything to prove any signature.
Basically at this point in time, besides the new generation of video
taping, the best thing you have is your reputation...... ie your word,
and up till now, AW has that.

I have questioned AW in the past for this very thing as well and got
emails by AW etc about my posts. I had questioned one item I had
purchased... America signed LP and an item I wanted (Tim Allen signed
Santa Clause item) which they had tons of every day, week, month year
with no end. I was told the same thing, both signed eagerly, all the
time and were easy to get. After researching that fact, I found they
were indeed speaking the truth. I still found it strange... after a
while won't these celebs get wise? Won't they stop signing or see
their sig is being sold and get p/o'd? I feel strongly it's okay to
question them or Autograph pros or others even if deemed reputable.
As a consumer, I want to protect myself and nobody has the right to
quash my view, even if they are upset by it. Actually, they should
use this cynicism to better themselves...

But my conclusion was this: 1) they have not lied to me as to the
fact both are willing signers. 2) I have obtained outside and in
addition to AW items, separate items from both Tim and America (by
mail and in person) and the sigs match. So I have not seen forgeries.
3) Before I buy anything now, unless it's an auction ending in a few
minutes or something and I am pressured to bid or lose, I research the
signatures to make sure I can verify what I am buying. So far now
nothing I have come across has been so far off or suspect to the
point I worried about it.... and finally 3) unless and until it's
proven they've done something wrong, I am not willing to trash them. I
believe they are about the best thing out there right now in a world
of forgeries .

To BUYERS:
I would recommend you research before buying and become knowledgeable.
And then I would recommend emailing before bidding and asking AW and
others to state how and where they got items.

TO SELLERS INCLUDING AUTOGRAPHWORLD AND AUTOGRAPHPROS ETC
I would recommend to video, to answer all emails, no matter how
bothersome. to keep your reputation in tact. I would also recommend
to try to record (I know it's tough) all items - where and when you
got them. If buying from others, you need to start a provenance
program whereby they record of who and when they got the item and if
possible, any information on where and when those got the item. THIS
is the only way to combat forgeries and find out where the trash is
coming from. This all will bring costs up and people will bitch about
that. So people will have to decide whether or not they are willing
to pay....

TO ALL:
Lastly, remember I have databases now of signatures and there are many
hundreds up now with several more hundreds to go on (I've no time and
no help so it could be months before I finish). But here's what I got
so far... use these to help you decide if you have the real items:
http://www.starwarsautographcollecting.com/Resources/signature_database.htm
http://www.starwarsautographcollecting.com/Resources/ProfilesInHistorySignature/disclaimer_about_this_database.htm

and also the Xlist and watch lists to make sure you are not buying
from corrupt dealers (scroll down and click the X):

http://www.starwarsautographcollecting.com/Resources/ConsumerArticles/ConsumerInformationTemplate.htm
and this section has articles (written by myself and others) to help
educate yourself in the realm of forgeries, autopens, secretarials,
and preprints as well as some other education site links and other
lists of deadbeat forgers etc.

I've done everything in my power to educate people... if anyone has
any OTHER ideas, feel free to let me know.


On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 15:19:23 +0100, Dominic

Bob,
I think you are taking the information presented by SignatureDomain
personal. He is stating a vaild side to the arguement if he may provide
proof. Proof is what this whole thread has been about, proof AW cannot
provide to their customers. I doubt a member will create an elaborate
story to simply "trash" a company. Lorriems24 is also backing claims
that AW is indeed selling fakes or forgeries.
Lorriems24,
Have you purchased autographs you believe or know are fake in the past?
What are your basing your claims on that the items are fake?
Dominic

Post by Bob
Mike,
Nice point!!!
We are supposed to believe the recording artist commited 100's of
felonies to prove that several UACC dealers didn't check their
sources. Yeah ok.
Show me the idiot who is willing to do 45 years in federal prison for
forgery, tax fraud (because he would have needed to pay unlce sam, or
did he?), trafficing illegal goods. copyright violations, since he I'm
sure didn't have the rights to the photos he printed to forge on and
I'll show you the winner of this years Darwin Award!
Sue,
If your son can build a website that is dynamic and can be intrigrated
with finanicial applications or in the case of AW one that can help
create a seamless auction type format that helps create revenue for a
company while being easy for non tech's to use, send him my way.
SignatureDomain
Use a real ID it carries more weight, last time your email address
showed up under profiles was last May in defense of Stickler.
You're documenting the results, funny how would you do that??
Do you have access to the record exec? Did he meet with you and share
his plan (that would make you a conspirator in fraud), Did he send you
copies of the forgeries (and provide evidence of his own crimes), did
the UACC RD send you an interview, provide you with copies of their
checks and the autographs they bought and sold?
So which one are you really WOODWARD OR BERSTEIN, come on, come
clean.
Please don't sell me this BS.
Has AW or any other RD make mistakes, I'm sure, handle a 1000
autographs a month, 12 months a year, for 10 years or more and you are
bound to have an issue. Don't forget these guys do offer a money back
gaurantee for life, and unlike most sellers the RD program requires
them to send you a receipt, not a COA which is worthless, but a
receipt for use in court if you needed it.
Bob

[Gummby3]

The problem with videotaping the event is going to fall under the lack
of proof that a photo holds. Unscrupulous sellers can, and do, use a
single photo taken of a celeb actually signing an item 5 years ago and
use it as proof to push their forged items. There is nothing to keep
them from doing the same thing with a video clip. A celeb surrounded
by people swarming like vultures with pens looks the same no matter
where it's taped. While it will show a celeb signing at some point in
time, there's no way to prove that the item you purchase even has
anything to do with that event. I think Shatner and his videotaping
autograph group are going to run into that too.
--
Mike
Gummby3
-= Star Collector =-
www.star-collector.net
Celebrity addresses the way they should be - free.

Post by Sue H
AW may have to start videoing the stuff they get and including that
snippet with their COA's in order to help prove themselves more, but
short of that, NOBODY can do anything to prove any signature.
Basically at this point in time, besides the new generation of video
taping, the best thing you have is your reputation...... ie your word,
and up till now, AW has that.

[Kenneth Zinger]

"Gummby3" <***@suddenlink.net> wrote in

I think Shatner and his videotaping

Post by Gummby3
autograph group are going to run into that too.

But doesn't Shatner actually include a filmed personal message to the person
it is signed to?

[Gummby3]

He does read a script for each person, but there is still the question
of whether he actually signed the item that is shown on the tape.
Just playing devil's advocate, but who is to say that he doesn't
already have a stack of pre-signed pictures? I've worked two
conventions where he's done that. He'll be scheduled to sign for 2-3
hours. About 2 hours into it, he'll take a lunch break and a stack of
presigned photos will appear and he leaves before the full 3 hours are
up. The rest of the paying customers don't get to meet him, but they
get the promised signed picture. Once could be a coincidence, but
that happened twice. I'm not saying that he's doing this here. I
still think that it falls into the "if you don't see it signed
personally, how can you be sure it's real" category.
--
Mike
Gummby3
-= Star Collector =-
www.star-collector.net
Celebrity addresses the way they should be - free.

Post by Gummby3
I think Shatner and his videotaping

Post by Gummby3
autograph group are going to run into that too.

But doesn't Shatner actually include a filmed personal message to the person
it is signed to?

[Sue H]

Tis true; I'd recommend services for this now ask sit down signers to
put first/last names on personalized photos. There's no doubting that.
However, on ones like autographpros, they show the custom guitars
signed and that's not an every day product, so I think it works for
them.

If you have 5 graphs being signed of the same photos, videotaping
isn't going to help, but maybe it's better than nothing at all.

Post by Gummby3
The problem with videotaping the event is going to fall under the lack
of proof that a photo holds. Unscrupulous sellers can, and do, use a
single photo taken of a celeb actually signing an item 5 years ago and
use it as proof to push their forged items. There is nothing to keep
them from doing the same thing with a video clip. A celeb surrounded
by people swarming like vultures with pens looks the same no matter
where it's taped. While it will show a celeb signing at some point in
time, there's no way to prove that the item you purchase even has
anything to do with that event. I think Shatner and his videotaping
autograph group are going to run into that too.

[Gummby3]

I'm just an every day collector, and I have no connection to Autograph
World. There has never been a reason for me to doubt what I've
purchased from them. Again, I do actual research and comparison
before I purchase.
--
Mike
Gummby3
-= Star Collector =-
www.star-collector.net
Celebrity addresses the way they should be - free.

Bob,
I think you are taking the information presented by SignatureDomain
personal. He is stating a vaild side to the arguement if he may
provide
proof. Proof is what this whole thread has been about, proof AW
cannot
provide to their customers. I doubt a member will create an
elaborate
story to simply "trash" a company. Lorriems24 is also backing claims
that AW is indeed selling fakes or forgeries.
Lorriems24,
Have you purchased autographs you believe or know are fake in the
past?
What are your basing your claims on that the items are fake?

[l***@yahoo.com]

On Sep 5, 7:19 am, Dominic <***@collectingbanter.com>
wrote:
Lorriems24 is also backing claims

Post by Dominic
that AW is indeed selling fakes or forgeries.
Have you purchased autographs you believe or know are fake in the past?
What are your basing your claims on that the items are fake?
Dominic

I'm saying that a fool and their money are easily parted. Why would
someone buy a photo with a hurried squiggle on it, rather than a
signed contract? Because the photo with the squiggle on it is much
cheaper and much more plentiful. This isn't just about one autograph
dealer. It's about all of them. Video proof won't prove anything,
unless the exact item you are buying is getting signed in the clip. I
can get a video of any celebrity signing and say they signed your item
during that encounter. It isn't wise to make outright claims of
forgery, since such comments can be actionable. And I don't really
have time to give anyone a free lesson on how to avoid questionable
autographs by going lot by lot through an auction separating the
questionable from the good. But if I was called to do that in a court
of law, it would be very simple. These problems are much more
prevalent with modern stars than vintage.
None of the items I've purchased are fake to my knowledge and I've
never spent money with AutographWorld or AutographPros before. Most
of the items I purchase are obtained directly from larger auction
houses or signed in-person.

[Sue H]

contracts can be forged easily. blank contracts can be laser copied
and signatures forged... there is no such thing as a 100% except for
the person who gets it themself and never sells it.

Personally, your buying something frorm larger auction houses means
NOTHING. It is my opinion R and R auction, a big auction house they
claim, sells plenty of questionable items.

In addition, signature house and Profiles in history are good
companies in my opinion, but unless bought directly from the estates
of the celeb themselves, it's all questionable. Occasionally, a
signed SW poster or script is shown in there that could be ify....
I've not encountered a fake one yet, HOWEVER, they have some items
sold to them on commission from collectors like us.... and they don't
have proof. You cannot just claim one company is better because it's
got a name like Sotheby's... it MAY be better overall, but NOBODY IS
IMMUNE. Not even your purchases or mine and I consider myself an
educated person on this subject.

Lorriems24 is also backing claims

Post by Dominic
that AW is indeed selling fakes or forgeries.
Have you purchased autographs you believe or know are fake in the past?
What are your basing your claims on that the items are fake?
Dominic

I'm saying that a fool and their money are easily parted. Why would
someone buy a photo with a hurried squiggle on it, rather than a
signed contract? Because the photo with the squiggle on it is much
cheaper and much more plentiful. This isn't just about one autograph
dealer. It's about all of them. Video proof won't prove anything,
unless the exact item you are buying is getting signed in the clip. I
can get a video of any celebrity signing and say they signed your item
during that encounter. It isn't wise to make outright claims of
forgery, since such comments can be actionable. And I don't really
have time to give anyone a free lesson on how to avoid questionable
autographs by going lot by lot through an auction separating the
questionable from the good. But if I was called to do that in a court
of law, it would be very simple. These problems are much more
prevalent with modern stars than vintage.
None of the items I've purchased are fake to my knowledge and I've
never spent money with AutographWorld or AutographPros before. Most
of the items I purchase are obtained directly from larger auction
houses or signed in-person.

[SignatureDomain]

contracts can be forged easily. �blank contracts can be laser copied
and signatures forged... there is no such thing as a 100% except for
the person who gets it themself and never sells it.
Personally, your buying something frorm larger auction houses means
NOTHING. �It is my opinion R and R auction, a big auction house they
claim, sells plenty of questionable items. �
In addition, signature house and Profiles in history are good
companies in my opinion, but unless bought directly from the estates
of the celeb themselves, it's all questionable. �Occasionally, a
signed SW poster or script is shown in there that could be ify....
I've not encountered a fake one yet, HOWEVER, they have some items
sold to them on commission from collectors like us.... and they don't
have proof. �You cannot just claim one company is better because it's
got a name like Sotheby's... it MAY be better overall, but NOBODY IS
IMMUNE. �Not even your purchases or mine and I consider myself an
educated person on this subject.

Lorriems24 is also backing claims

Post by Dominic
that AW is indeed selling fakes or forgeries.
Have you purchased autographs you believe or know are fake in the past?
What are your basing your claims on that the items are fake?
Dominic

I'm saying that a fool and their money are easily parted. �Why would
someone buy a photo with a hurried squiggle on it, rather than a
signed contract? �Because the photo with the squiggle on it is much
cheaper and much more plentiful. �This isn't just about one autograph
dealer. �It's about all of them. �Video proof won't prove anything,
unless the exact item you are buying is getting signed in the clip. �I
can get a video of any celebrity signing and say they signed your item
during that encounter. �It isn't wise to make outright claims of
forgery, since such comments can be actionable. �And I don't really
have time to give anyone a free lesson on how to avoid questionable
autographs by going lot by lot through an auction separating the
questionable from the good. �But if I was called to do that in a court
of law, it would be very simple. �These problems are much more
prevalent with modern stars than vintage.
� None of the items I've purchased are fake to my knowledge and I've
never spent money with AutographWorld or AutographPros before. �Most
of the items I purchase are obtained directly from larger auction
houses or signed in-person.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

All major dealers buy from sources other than people they have working
for them - ALL of them! These dealers that state 'solid proof' or any
other flourished statements are the ones to especially watch. They
splash photos of celebs signing for someone or the owner of the
business will pop their head in on the photo - it's all too easy.
Some of these websites have tons of entertainers, especially those
that sell guitars, drum heads, ect. and you have to really start to
ask yourself

"how in the world can they maintain an inventory of thousands of items
that represent thousands of different entertainers and say they obtain
it themselves?"

Common sense tells you the obvious answer - they buy from outside
sources.

[a***@gmail.com]

Post by SignatureDomain

contracts can be forged easily. blank contracts can be laser copied
and signatures forged... there is no such thing as a 100% except for
the person who gets it themself and never sells it.
Personally, your buying something frorm larger auction houses means
NOTHING. It is my opinion R and R auction, a big auction house they
claim, sells plenty of questionable items.
In addition, signature house and Profiles in history are good
companies in my opinion, but unless bought directly from the estates
of the celeb themselves, it's all questionable. Occasionally, a
signed SW poster or script is shown in there that could be ify....
I've not encountered a fake one yet, HOWEVER, they have some items
sold to them on commission from collectors like us.... and they don't
have proof. You cannot just claim one company is better because it's
got a name like Sotheby's... it MAY be better overall, but NOBODY IS
IMMUNE. Not even your purchases or mine and I consider myself an
educated person on this subject.

Lorriems24 is also backing claims

Post by Dominic
that AW is indeed selling fakes or forgeries.
Have you purchased autographs you believe or know are fake in the past?
What are your basing your claims on that the items are fake?
Dominic

I'm saying that a fool and their money are easily parted. Why would
someone buy a photo with a hurried squiggle on it, rather than a
signed contract? Because the photo with the squiggle on it is much
cheaper and much more plentiful. This isn't just about one autograph
dealer. It's about all of them. Video proof won't prove anything,
unless the exact item you are buying is getting signed in the clip. I
can get a video of any celebrity signing and say they signed your item
during that encounter. It isn't wise to make outright claims of
forgery, since such comments can be actionable. And I don't really
have time to give anyone a free lesson on how to avoid questionable
autographs by going lot by lot through an auction separating the
questionable from the good. But if I was called to do that in a court
of law, it would be very simple. These problems are much more
prevalent with modern stars than vintage.
None of the items I've purchased are fake to my knowledge and I've
never spent money with AutographWorld or AutographPros before. Most
of the items I purchase are obtained directly from larger auction
houses or signed in-person.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

All major dealers buy from sources other than people they have working
for them - ALL of them!  These dealers that state 'solid proof' or any
other flourished statements are the ones to especially watch.  They
splash photos of celebs signing for someone or the owner of the
business will pop their head in on the photo - it's all too easy.
Some of these websites have tons of entertainers, especially those
that sell guitars, drum heads, ect. and you have to really start to
ask yourself
"how in the world can they maintain an inventory of thousands of items
that represent thousands of different entertainers and say they obtain
it themselves?"
Common sense tells you the obvious answer - they buy from outside
sources.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Here's one that I know barefootmk will love. A little update on
Strickler's.

http://www.uacc.info/page5.html

[Sue H]

Only Barefoot is gone or is reincarnated...

Post by a***@gmail.com

Post by SignatureDomain

contracts can be forged easily. blank contracts can be laser copied
and signatures forged... there is no such thing as a 100% except for
the person who gets it themself and never sells it.
Personally, your buying something frorm larger auction houses means
NOTHING. It is my opinion R and R auction, a big auction house they
claim, sells plenty of questionable items.
In addition, signature house and Profiles in history are good
companies in my opinion, but unless bought directly from the estates
of the celeb themselves, it's all questionable. Occasionally, a
signed SW poster or script is shown in there that could be ify....
I've not encountered a fake one yet, HOWEVER, they have some items
sold to them on commission from collectors like us.... and they don't
have proof. You cannot just claim one company is better because it's
got a name like Sotheby's... it MAY be better overall, but NOBODY IS
IMMUNE. Not even your purchases or mine and I consider myself an
educated person on this subject.

Lorriems24 is also backing claims

Post by Dominic
that AW is indeed selling fakes or forgeries.
Have you purchased autographs you believe or know are fake in the past?
What are your basing your claims on that the items are fake?
Dominic

I'm saying that a fool and their money are easily parted. Why would
someone buy a photo with a hurried squiggle on it, rather than a
signed contract? Because the photo with the squiggle on it is much
cheaper and much more plentiful. This isn't just about one autograph
dealer. It's about all of them. Video proof won't prove anything,
unless the exact item you are buying is getting signed in the clip. I
can get a video of any celebrity signing and say they signed your item
during that encounter. It isn't wise to make outright claims of
forgery, since such comments can be actionable. And I don't really
have time to give anyone a free lesson on how to avoid questionable
autographs by going lot by lot through an auction separating the
questionable from the good. But if I was called to do that in a court
of law, it would be very simple. These problems are much more
prevalent with modern stars than vintage.
None of the items I've purchased are fake to my knowledge and I've
never spent money with AutographWorld or AutographPros before. Most
of the items I purchase are obtained directly from larger auction
houses or signed in-person.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

All major dealers buy from sources other than people they have working
for them - ALL of them!  These dealers that state 'solid proof' or any
other flourished statements are the ones to especially watch.  They
splash photos of celebs signing for someone or the owner of the
business will pop their head in on the photo - it's all too easy.
Some of these websites have tons of entertainers, especially those
that sell guitars, drum heads, ect. and you have to really start to
ask yourself
"how in the world can they maintain an inventory of thousands of items
that represent thousands of different entertainers and say they obtain
it themselves?"
Common sense tells you the obvious answer - they buy from outside
sources.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Here's one that I know barefootmk will love. A little update on
Strickler's.
http://www.uacc.info/page5.html

[Bob]

Actualli I'm not taking it personal, I just have seen no proof. You
see claiming a business is selling fakes because they do well isn't
proof. Where are the scans, where is the comparrisons, just baseless
claims. In the professional world it is called slander, and is a
crime. So put up or shut up.

[Kenneth Zinger]

"SignatureDomain" <***@aol.com> wrote in message
news:c671c2e8-a9d8-4de4-8624-> As an
Dom - do yourself a big favor and stay away from AW. A few months ago, I
looked at the UACC registered dealer list for the first time in many years.
I was amazed at the 'dealers' listed there because I know

Post by SignatureDomain
where many of them are getting their inventory.

How in the world can you get Jodie Foster walking down the sidewalk often
enough to put multiple signed photos in every auction for years on end?
Ridiculous and impossible.

[Dominic]

Kenneth

Well put, I agree with you. You've said what I've been trying to ge
across in simpler, much more direct words.

I am not saying every celebrity autograph on AW is fake. There hav
been certain somewhat popular celebrities that I have not seen liste
for months or even a year


--
Dominic