Discussion:
UACC/PSADNA
(too old to reply)
Sue H
2008-05-13 18:47:39 UTC
Permalink
Just noticed the area on UACC where they list their approved
authenticators and I noticed PSADNA is not on there. Why is that?
barefoot
2008-05-13 21:21:45 UTC
Permalink
probably because a lot of UACC dealers don't pass psa..
plus, those guys from autographworld are "consultants" at james
spence...so that's probably 2 reasons.
m
Mr Black
2008-05-14 09:51:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by barefoot
probably because a lot of UACC dealers don't pass psa..
plus, those guys from autographworld are "consultants" at james
spence...so that's probably 2 reasons.
m
----- Original Message -----
From: "barefoot" <***@comcast.net>
Newsgroups: alt.collecting.autographs
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: UACC/PSADNA
Post by barefoot
probably because a lot of UACC dealers don't pass psa..
plus, those guys from autographworld are "consultants" at james
spence...so that's probably 2 reasons.
m
No, here is the actual reason why...

http://jwautographs.blogspot.com/2007/05/psadna-authentication-services.html
Mr Black
2008-05-14 09:58:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by barefoot
probably because a lot of UACC dealers don't pass psa..
plus, those guys from autographworld are "consultants" at james
spence...so that's probably 2 reasons.
m
here is another one for you...

http://www.complaints.com/2006/november/27/Complaint_regarding_PSA_DNA_12521.htm
Sue H
2008-05-14 14:05:49 UTC
Permalink
According to an email I got, the reason was they never applied...

But this is the long standing issue... are authentication services
worth it or totally a waste of time?. Why send your money to a company
who's had so many problems? It means that obviously you are banking
on whomever will buy your item that has been passed by them will
impress the buyer? You could make up your own letter then in my
opinion stating you researched the item yourself and guarantee it to
be authentic. Most collectors are just impressed with any COA... and
as long as you'll stand by your word, it's almost as good as anyone
elses.

I wonder what it would take to have really GOOD authentication.
Obviously, this is a field where we are lacking and thus a suspect
hobby to get in. Or is it like Art and Antiques where you CAN give an
informed opinon? To me, yes, you can give an opinion but it's very
subjective but you can do some things. When they authenticate say the
guy's baseballs (see link Mr. B posted), the COULD say when the ball
was manufactured and if the timeframe is consistent with the dates the
guy was signing baseballs. They should keep a databank of all
recorded incidents of signings (ie if Willie Mays was on QVC and all
the facts surrounding it, or if he signed at sports shows etc and the
dates). Combine with other data like facts "always personalized",
"never used ball point" or any other facts they know and contact the
players, if still living and do thorough interviews with them on the
subject and try to get something going within the field to
"standardize" signings. They should also quiz the person (have them
fill out a questionnaire) submitting the article. For instance, they
need to ask where they got the item from and what information came
along with it (story, photos, receipts or proof). I always ask these
questions. From there you can tell indeed if a story is ridiculous.
If they said Willy Mays signed that ball at this location on such and
such a date and you have in your data bank that Willie Mays was out in
a foreign country doing a promo from something, then obviously, you
have one piece of proof showing he most likely did not sign that ball.
If you have say a COA from a company that was sued in court and lost
for fraudulent COA's. um, that's more proof. If you have a photo of
them signing a photo and your item is a baseball, you can say no proof
was had. It goes on and on.

So what I am saying is, if you are an authenticator and charging
money, grow your operation so that it CAN become a huge, real,
business that people can trust. If I had my own funds, I'd love to
start my own; I see a potential for something much better. But I have
just given you ideas FREE. Why not take them, develop them and do the
world a real service. Or is it because you don't want the hassle?
Too lazy and it's just too easy taking people's money? This should be
a fULL business; not a side job, which is where I think you all are
going wrong. Take the leap and do it RIGHT.

It's also important for collectors to be more serious. Why are you
buying stuff because it's cheap when you have NO FACTS. If every
single collector insisted on provenance and some sort of proof, you'd
have a LOT less forgeries out there.

On Wed, 14 May 2008 19:58:41 +1000, "Mr Black"
Post by Mr Black
Post by barefoot
probably because a lot of UACC dealers don't pass psa..
plus, those guys from autographworld are "consultants" at james
spence...so that's probably 2 reasons.
m
here is another one for you...
http://www.complaints.com/2006/november/27/Complaint_regarding_PSA_DNA_12521.htm
Mr Black
2008-05-14 10:01:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by barefoot
probably because a lot of UACC dealers don't pass psa..
plus, those guys from autographworld are "consultants" at james
spence...so that's probably 2 reasons.
m
third times a charm...

http://www.smartmoney.com/barrons/index.cfm?story=20060303
barefoot
2008-05-14 12:54:38 UTC
Permalink
there's a lot of complaints about EVERY authentication company.
A LOT...
m
AutographPros.com
2008-05-14 15:42:01 UTC
Permalink
I remember when I was selling on ebay and had about 10,000 positive
feedbacks and 59 negatives. I'd get people not doing business with me
because I had 59 negatives. Those people forget that people are much more
apt to complain than to praise in many instances, and I am confident that's
the same with PSA/DNA. They have authenticated what, millions of
autographs? I can name 10 incorrect newsworthy mistakes they made, and I'd
have to imagine there are probably 20 more that are newsworthy but never
surfaced. People have to remember, PSA/DNA is a target because they
excelled above the other authenticators. They are a target by other
'self-proclaimed' experts, and they are surely a target by FORGERS! A lot
of the internet bashing that PSA/DNA has taken have been posted by forgers.
Please note, I'm not referring to any of Mr. Black's posts but I've seen
countless forger blogs that push these stories making the mountain out of
the mole hill. The forgers don't want a proven method to prove what they
are selling is bad. By peddling these few stories constantly and jumping on
every mistake, it allows them to forge and discredit all authenticators.
Also a lot of these stories are taken out of context. I don't recall a
non-profit organization (UACC) and it's Registered Dealer program ever
meeting and publicly voicing an opinion one way or the other on PSA/DNA.
That statement makes no sense to me, as no one asked me my opinion and I'm a
Registered Dealer.

I'm not one of these guys that bashes my competitors, never have. I support
them when I see good things and I am also authenticating items so in direct
competition with PSA/DNA and could easily come in and join the bandwagon.
No where near the scale they are, and I never intend to be. I just base my
judgment on what I've seen. I've probably seen over 5,000 items
authenticated by PSA/DNA and only a few times did I see items that were
'questionable' of these 5,000 items, and again this was just by a quick
review. I support what James Spence (2 or 3 newsworthy mistakes?), Rodger
Epperson, Bob Eaton, PSA/DNA, and GAI are doing, as well as my own work.
You see, when you see so many in-person autographs, it's very easy to know
the difference from the real and fakes, especially when you know when the
item was supposedly signed. It's like barefootmk pointed out about
Strickler having fake autographs of current films. His autographs looked
nothing like East or West coast examples of this year's signatures. Yes
people's signatures change, but not that significantly, and not when every
single other in-person example looks the same.

Do I disagree with PSA/DNA's work ethics, customer service, and policy
standards, absolutely. I base this on the fact that they issued COAs with
stamped signatures from authenticators that never looked at the items, and
also based on their Better Business Bureau ratings which are horrible. I
often wonder how many signatures they send back, stating it's outside of
their expertise. I can assure you I've done this with my authentication
services and refunded the payments. Outside of that, I feel they have done
great things for the hobby. Their COA is far above an average COA in my
opinion. Anyone notice how many of the big name forgers that are on the
X-list are now "No Longer A Registered User" on ebay? This means they are
kicked off and we all know why. I'd dare say 90% of those large forgers are
now off ebay and I believe it was with the help of ebay adding PSA/DNA to
it's authentication team. You may want to try contacting ebay and ask them
if PSA/DNA's 'quick opinion' had any help with the removal of these forgers?
Ask them what happens if a seller gets a few of those failed PSA/DNA Quick
Opinions. If PSA/DNA got rid of even 1 forger, they did more for the hobby
than most of us have, and that's a good thing if you ask me.
--
Michael Kasmar
www.AutographPros.com
UACC Registered Dealer #237
Accredited Better Business Member with a lifetime flawless record


"Have you joined our emailer yet? If not, please do so immediately by going
to http://www.autographpros.com/newsletter.php
Post by Mr Black
Post by barefoot
probably because a lot of UACC dealers don't pass psa..
plus, those guys from autographworld are "consultants" at james
spence...so that's probably 2 reasons.
m
third times a charm...
http://www.smartmoney.com/barrons/index.cfm?story=20060303
Sue H
2008-05-14 16:57:18 UTC
Permalink
Ah, but we don't know their stats. How much are they doing a year?

As for the people complaining, let me ask you one question... if you
paid for something (doesn't matter what it is, say designer shirt or
watch or perhaps a fancy dinner) and then you learned it was fake or
perhaps made from canned food, would you be unhappy and complain? or
want your money back? Would you think it was a molehill if someone
took 119 dollars of your money and you got nothing for it but
aggravation?

If you had a Picasso in your home and went to an authenticator who
said it was fake and it wasn't and you trashed it because of their
opihnion, would you be mad if someone took it out of the trash and
sold it at an auction house for 20 million? THIS is why this is so
important for them to get it right! I am not saying graphs equate to
that, but whether it's a thousand dollars or a million, it's all
relative. It's SUPER important they don't have as many mistakes as
they do.

As for feedback, I think 59 people is significant even if 10000.
However, I would definately give you the benefit of the doubt (was
your rating 99.5?). I don't like bidding on anything below 99.7 but
it will depend on how many and the comments. Someone can have a
feedback rating of 50 because they've got one bad and one good rating
total. That doesn't mean anything if the person leaving the negative
is just a jerk. You need to read it all and see why. If it's all
"slow shipping", that's not a big deal. Or one damaged item, 20 slow
shippings, 5 "slow to email", two "never got item" etc. That shows
accidents happen and most of your problem is overworked. No big deal
if I am a patient person. So customers have to be fair but you also
have to understand people are just wanting to protect themselves.

If they can't authenticate one way or another is another issue. Do
they keep your money (I actually have no clue but if they do, it's
wrong). THey need to revamp their business practices.

Those forgers come back. As in the case of andys.soulbox, he was
booted off according to the person. After a period of time he came
back under a different ID and then another and then sold stuff under a
new credit card in a relative's name. There are ways to come back.
So I'd say no, not 90% are off there. What you need to know about
criminals (I learned this in an AIB course) is that they are brazen
and really are career... that is to say they are ingenious in their
schemes, finding new ways to get around the system.

If PSA/DNA got rid of a forger that's one good thing like you say.
However, if PSA/DNA enables a forger to continue by okaying their
items, then they also did equal damage. Just my opinion.


On Wed, 14 May 2008 11:42:01 -0400, "AutographPros.com"
Post by AutographPros.com
I remember when I was selling on ebay and had about 10,000 positive
feedbacks and 59 negatives. I'd get people not doing business with me
because I had 59 negatives. Those people forget that people are much more
apt to complain than to praise in many instances, and I am confident that's
the same with PSA/DNA. They have authenticated what, millions of
autographs? I can name 10 incorrect newsworthy mistakes they made, and I'd
have to imagine there are probably 20 more that are newsworthy but never
surfaced. People have to remember, PSA/DNA is a target because they
excelled above the other authenticators. They are a target by other
'self-proclaimed' experts, and they are surely a target by FORGERS! A lot
of the internet bashing that PSA/DNA has taken have been posted by forgers.
Please note, I'm not referring to any of Mr. Black's posts but I've seen
countless forger blogs that push these stories making the mountain out of
the mole hill. The forgers don't want a proven method to prove what they
are selling is bad. By peddling these few stories constantly and jumping on
every mistake, it allows them to forge and discredit all authenticators.
Also a lot of these stories are taken out of context. I don't recall a
non-profit organization (UACC) and it's Registered Dealer program ever
meeting and publicly voicing an opinion one way or the other on PSA/DNA.
That statement makes no sense to me, as no one asked me my opinion and I'm a
Registered Dealer.
I'm not one of these guys that bashes my competitors, never have. I support
them when I see good things and I am also authenticating items so in direct
competition with PSA/DNA and could easily come in and join the bandwagon.
No where near the scale they are, and I never intend to be. I just base my
judgment on what I've seen. I've probably seen over 5,000 items
authenticated by PSA/DNA and only a few times did I see items that were
'questionable' of these 5,000 items, and again this was just by a quick
review. I support what James Spence (2 or 3 newsworthy mistakes?), Rodger
Epperson, Bob Eaton, PSA/DNA, and GAI are doing, as well as my own work.
You see, when you see so many in-person autographs, it's very easy to know
the difference from the real and fakes, especially when you know when the
item was supposedly signed. It's like barefootmk pointed out about
Strickler having fake autographs of current films. His autographs looked
nothing like East or West coast examples of this year's signatures. Yes
people's signatures change, but not that significantly, and not when every
single other in-person example looks the same.
Do I disagree with PSA/DNA's work ethics, customer service, and policy
standards, absolutely. I base this on the fact that they issued COAs with
stamped signatures from authenticators that never looked at the items, and
also based on their Better Business Bureau ratings which are horrible. I
often wonder how many signatures they send back, stating it's outside of
their expertise. I can assure you I've done this with my authentication
services and refunded the payments. Outside of that, I feel they have done
great things for the hobby. Their COA is far above an average COA in my
opinion. Anyone notice how many of the big name forgers that are on the
X-list are now "No Longer A Registered User" on ebay? This means they are
kicked off and we all know why. I'd dare say 90% of those large forgers are
now off ebay and I believe it was with the help of ebay adding PSA/DNA to
it's authentication team. You may want to try contacting ebay and ask them
if PSA/DNA's 'quick opinion' had any help with the removal of these forgers?
Ask them what happens if a seller gets a few of those failed PSA/DNA Quick
Opinions. If PSA/DNA got rid of even 1 forger, they did more for the hobby
than most of us have, and that's a good thing if you ask me.
AutographPros.com
2008-05-14 17:51:50 UTC
Permalink
That was my point exactly. As you stated with the feedback, you need to
read it all, which was why I bothered to post. I posted some of the other
side that these boards aren't talking about. In no way am I saying PSA/DNA
is great, sorry, wish I could, and as you stated, I believe they could be
great, but for whatever reasons, are not there yet. I don't even think they
are far from there, but I do see the benefit that they've done to the hobby,
and appreciate that. I can't point out one instance where PSA/DNA has
helped forgers survive but as I pointed out, I believe they've rid ebay of
countless forgers.
--
Michael Kasmar
www.AutographPros.com
UACC Registered Dealer #237
Accredited Better Business Member with a lifetime flawless record


"Have you joined our emailer yet? If not, please do so immediately by going
to http://www.autographpros.com/newsletter.php
Post by Sue H
Ah, but we don't know their stats. How much are they doing a year?
As for the people complaining, let me ask you one question... if you
paid for something (doesn't matter what it is, say designer shirt or
watch or perhaps a fancy dinner) and then you learned it was fake or
perhaps made from canned food, would you be unhappy and complain? or
want your money back? Would you think it was a molehill if someone
took 119 dollars of your money and you got nothing for it but
aggravation?
If you had a Picasso in your home and went to an authenticator who
said it was fake and it wasn't and you trashed it because of their
opihnion, would you be mad if someone took it out of the trash and
sold it at an auction house for 20 million? THIS is why this is so
important for them to get it right! I am not saying graphs equate to
that, but whether it's a thousand dollars or a million, it's all
relative. It's SUPER important they don't have as many mistakes as
they do.
As for feedback, I think 59 people is significant even if 10000.
However, I would definately give you the benefit of the doubt (was
your rating 99.5?). I don't like bidding on anything below 99.7 but
it will depend on how many and the comments. Someone can have a
feedback rating of 50 because they've got one bad and one good rating
total. That doesn't mean anything if the person leaving the negative
is just a jerk. You need to read it all and see why. If it's all
"slow shipping", that's not a big deal. Or one damaged item, 20 slow
shippings, 5 "slow to email", two "never got item" etc. That shows
accidents happen and most of your problem is overworked. No big deal
if I am a patient person. So customers have to be fair but you also
have to understand people are just wanting to protect themselves.
If they can't authenticate one way or another is another issue. Do
they keep your money (I actually have no clue but if they do, it's
wrong). THey need to revamp their business practices.
Those forgers come back. As in the case of andys.soulbox, he was
booted off according to the person. After a period of time he came
back under a different ID and then another and then sold stuff under a
new credit card in a relative's name. There are ways to come back.
So I'd say no, not 90% are off there. What you need to know about
criminals (I learned this in an AIB course) is that they are brazen
and really are career... that is to say they are ingenious in their
schemes, finding new ways to get around the system.
If PSA/DNA got rid of a forger that's one good thing like you say.
However, if PSA/DNA enables a forger to continue by okaying their
items, then they also did equal damage. Just my opinion.
On Wed, 14 May 2008 11:42:01 -0400, "AutographPros.com"
Post by AutographPros.com
I remember when I was selling on ebay and had about 10,000 positive
feedbacks and 59 negatives. I'd get people not doing business with me
because I had 59 negatives. Those people forget that people are much more
apt to complain than to praise in many instances, and I am confident that's
the same with PSA/DNA. They have authenticated what, millions of
autographs? I can name 10 incorrect newsworthy mistakes they made, and I'd
have to imagine there are probably 20 more that are newsworthy but never
surfaced. People have to remember, PSA/DNA is a target because they
excelled above the other authenticators. They are a target by other
'self-proclaimed' experts, and they are surely a target by FORGERS! A lot
of the internet bashing that PSA/DNA has taken have been posted by forgers.
Please note, I'm not referring to any of Mr. Black's posts but I've seen
countless forger blogs that push these stories making the mountain out of
the mole hill. The forgers don't want a proven method to prove what they
are selling is bad. By peddling these few stories constantly and jumping on
every mistake, it allows them to forge and discredit all authenticators.
Also a lot of these stories are taken out of context. I don't recall a
non-profit organization (UACC) and it's Registered Dealer program ever
meeting and publicly voicing an opinion one way or the other on PSA/DNA.
That statement makes no sense to me, as no one asked me my opinion and I'm a
Registered Dealer.
I'm not one of these guys that bashes my competitors, never have. I support
them when I see good things and I am also authenticating items so in direct
competition with PSA/DNA and could easily come in and join the bandwagon.
No where near the scale they are, and I never intend to be. I just base my
judgment on what I've seen. I've probably seen over 5,000 items
authenticated by PSA/DNA and only a few times did I see items that were
'questionable' of these 5,000 items, and again this was just by a quick
review. I support what James Spence (2 or 3 newsworthy mistakes?), Rodger
Epperson, Bob Eaton, PSA/DNA, and GAI are doing, as well as my own work.
You see, when you see so many in-person autographs, it's very easy to know
the difference from the real and fakes, especially when you know when the
item was supposedly signed. It's like barefootmk pointed out about
Strickler having fake autographs of current films. His autographs looked
nothing like East or West coast examples of this year's signatures. Yes
people's signatures change, but not that significantly, and not when every
single other in-person example looks the same.
Do I disagree with PSA/DNA's work ethics, customer service, and policy
standards, absolutely. I base this on the fact that they issued COAs with
stamped signatures from authenticators that never looked at the items, and
also based on their Better Business Bureau ratings which are horrible. I
often wonder how many signatures they send back, stating it's outside of
their expertise. I can assure you I've done this with my authentication
services and refunded the payments. Outside of that, I feel they have done
great things for the hobby. Their COA is far above an average COA in my
opinion. Anyone notice how many of the big name forgers that are on the
X-list are now "No Longer A Registered User" on ebay? This means they are
kicked off and we all know why. I'd dare say 90% of those large forgers are
now off ebay and I believe it was with the help of ebay adding PSA/DNA to
it's authentication team. You may want to try contacting ebay and ask them
if PSA/DNA's 'quick opinion' had any help with the removal of these forgers?
Ask them what happens if a seller gets a few of those failed PSA/DNA Quick
Opinions. If PSA/DNA got rid of even 1 forger, they did more for the hobby
than most of us have, and that's a good thing if you ask me.
Al D.
2008-05-15 05:16:49 UTC
Permalink
<don't want a proven method to prove what they
<are selling is bad

Well, they should stop worrying then, because there is no proven method.
northfield
2008-05-20 04:56:05 UTC
Permalink
On May 14, 11:42�am, "AutographPros.com"
Post by AutographPros.com
I remember when I was selling on ebay and had about 10,000 positive
feedbacks and 59 negatives. �I'd get people not doing business with me
because I had 59 negatives. �Those people forget that people are much more
apt to complain than to praise in many instances, and I am confident that's
the same with PSA/DNA. �They have authenticated what, millions of
autographs? �I can name 10 incorrect newsworthy mistakes they made, and I'd
have to imagine there are probably 20 more that are newsworthy but never
surfaced. �People have to remember, PSA/DNA is a target because they
excelled above the other authenticators. �They are a target by other
'self-proclaimed' experts, and they are surely a target by FORGERS! �A lot
of the internet bashing that PSA/DNA has taken have been posted by forgers.
Please note, I'm not referring to any of Mr. Black's posts but I've seen
countless forger blogs that push these stories making the mountain out of
the mole hill. �The forgers don't want a proven method to prove what they
are selling is bad. �By peddling these few stories constantly and jumping on
every mistake, it allows them to forge and discredit all authenticators.
Also a lot of these stories are taken out of context. �I don't recall a
non-profit organization (UACC) and it's Registered Dealer program ever
meeting and publicly voicing an opinion one way or the other on PSA/DNA.
That statement makes no sense to me, as no one asked me my opinion and I'm a
Registered Dealer.
I'm not one of these guys that bashes my competitors, never have. �I support
them when I see good things and I am also authenticating items so in direct
competition with PSA/DNA and could easily come in and join the bandwagon.
No where near the scale they are, and I never intend to be. �I just base my
judgment on what I've seen. �I've probably seen over 5,000 items
authenticated by PSA/DNA and only a few times did I see items that were
'questionable' of these 5,000 items, and again this was just by a quick
review. �I support what James Spence (2 or 3 newsworthy mistakes?), Rodger
Epperson, Bob Eaton, PSA/DNA, and GAI are doing, as well as my own work.
You see, when you see so many in-person autographs, it's very easy to know
the difference from the real and fakes, especially when you know when the
item was supposedly signed. �It's like barefootmk pointed out about
Strickler having fake autographs of current films. �His autographs looked
nothing like East or West coast examples of this year's signatures. �Yes
people's signatures change, but not that significantly, and not when every
single other in-person example looks the same.
Do I disagree with PSA/DNA's work ethics, customer service, and policy
standards, absolutely. �I base this on the fact that they issued COAs with
stamped signatures from authenticators that never looked at the items, and
also based on their Better Business Bureau ratings which are horrible. �I
often wonder how many signatures they send back, stating it's outside of
their expertise. �I can assure you I've done this with my authentication
services and refunded the payments. �Outside of that, I feel they have done
great things for the hobby. �Their COA is far above an average COA in my
opinion. �Anyone notice how many of the big name forgers that are on the
X-list are now "No Longer A Registered User" on ebay? �This means they are
kicked off and we all know why. �I'd dare say 90% of those large forgers are
now off ebay and I believe it was with the help of ebay adding PSA/DNA to
it's authentication team. �You may want to try contacting ebay and ask them
if PSA/DNA's 'quick opinion' had any help with the removal of these forgers?
Ask them what happens if a seller gets a few of those failed PSA/DNA Quick
Opinions. �If PSA/DNA got rid of even 1 forger, they did more for the hobby
than most of us have, and that's a good thing if you ask me.
--
Michael Kasmarwww.AutographPros.com
UACC Registered Dealer #237
Accredited Better Business Member with a lifetime flawless record
"Have you joined our emailer yet? �If not, please do so immediately by going
tohttp://www.autographpros.com/newsletter.php
Post by Mr Black
Post by barefoot
probably because a lot of UACC dealers don't pass psa..
plus, those guys from autographworld are "consultants" at james
spence...so that's probably 2 reasons.
m
third times a charm...
http://www.smartmoney.com/barrons/index.cfm?story=20060303- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Interesting - you failed to state that you were kicked off eBay as
well. Continue to make false statements about strickler as well.
There are people who would just love to crawl up your a$$
northfield
2008-05-20 05:20:26 UTC
Permalink
On May 14, 11:42�am, "AutographPros.com"
Post by AutographPros.com
I remember when I was selling on ebay and had about 10,000 positive
feedbacks and 59 negatives. �I'd get people not doing business with me
because I had 59 negatives. �Those people forget that people are much more
apt to complain than to praise in many instances, and I am confident that's
the same with PSA/DNA. �They have authenticated what, millions of
autographs? �I can name 10 incorrect newsworthy mistakes they made, and I'd
have to imagine there are probably 20 more that are newsworthy but never
surfaced. �People have to remember, PSA/DNA is a target because they
excelled above the other authenticators. �They are a target by other
'self-proclaimed' experts, and they are surely a target by FORGERS! �A lot
of the internet bashing that PSA/DNA has taken have been posted by forgers.
Please note, I'm not referring to any of Mr. Black's posts but I've seen
countless forger blogs that push these stories making the mountain out of
the mole hill. �The forgers don't want a proven method to prove what they
are selling is bad. �By peddling these few stories constantly and jumping on
every mistake, it allows them to forge and discredit all authenticators.
Also a lot of these stories are taken out of context. �I don't recall a
non-profit organization (UACC) and it's Registered Dealer program ever
meeting and publicly voicing an opinion one way or the other on PSA/DNA.
That statement makes no sense to me, as no one asked me my opinion and I'm a
Registered Dealer.
I'm not one of these guys that bashes my competitors, never have. �I support
them when I see good things and I am also authenticating items so in direct
competition with PSA/DNA and could easily come in and join the bandwagon.
No where near the scale they are, and I never intend to be. �I just base my
judgment on what I've seen. �I've probably seen over 5,000 items
authenticated by PSA/DNA and only a few times did I see items that were
'questionable' of these 5,000 items, and again this was just by a quick
review. �I support what James Spence (2 or 3 newsworthy mistakes?), Rodger
Epperson, Bob Eaton, PSA/DNA, and GAI are doing, as well as my own work.
You see, when you see so many in-person autographs, it's very easy to know
the difference from the real and fakes, especially when you know when the
item was supposedly signed. �It's like barefootmk pointed out about
Strickler having fake autographs of current films. �His autographs looked
nothing like East or West coast examples of this year's signatures. �Yes
people's signatures change, but not that significantly, and not when every
single other in-person example looks the same.
Do I disagree with PSA/DNA's work ethics, customer service, and policy
standards, absolutely. �I base this on the fact that they issued COAs with
stamped signatures from authenticators that never looked at the items, and
also based on their Better Business Bureau ratings which are horrible. �I
often wonder how many signatures they send back, stating it's outside of
their expertise. �I can assure you I've done this with my authentication
services and refunded the payments. �Outside of that, I feel they have done
great things for the hobby. �Their COA is far above an average COA in my
opinion. �Anyone notice how many of the big name forgers that are on the
X-list are now "No Longer A Registered User" on ebay? �This means they are
kicked off and we all know why. �I'd dare say 90% of those large forgers are
now off ebay and I believe it was with the help of ebay adding PSA/DNA to
it's authentication team. �You may want to try contacting ebay and ask them
if PSA/DNA's 'quick opinion' had any help with the removal of these forgers?
Ask them what happens if a seller gets a few of those failed PSA/DNA Quick
Opinions. �If PSA/DNA got rid of even 1 forger, they did more for the hobby
than most of us have, and that's a good thing if you ask me.
--
Michael Kasmarwww.AutographPros.com
UACC Registered Dealer #237
Accredited Better Business Member with a lifetime flawless record
"Have you joined our emailer yet? �If not, please do so immediately by going
tohttp://www.autographpros.com/newsletter.php
Post by Mr Black
Post by barefoot
probably because a lot of UACC dealers don't pass psa..
plus, those guys from autographworld are "consultants" at james
spence...so that's probably 2 reasons.
m
third times a charm...
http://www.smartmoney.com/barrons/index.cfm?story=20060303- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Interesting - you failed to state that you were kicked off eBay
because of PSA/DNA. Judging others item by sight and innuendo can
lead to serious problems down the road. It may be advisable to
abstain from that activity, especially when questions are raised about
you.
AutographPros.com
2008-05-20 05:57:48 UTC
Permalink
Again this person who people on this board are claiming is Strickler is
posting lies. Barefoot was not kicked off ebay for PSA/DNA violations, he
was removed for shill bidding but supposedly since then was allowed back on.
If you were referring to us, we've never once had any issue with any of our
items or account involving PSA/DNA or any incident to do with any issues
regarding authenticity for that matter. Every item ever submitted to
PSA/DNA's quick opinion from ebay bidders back when we had an ebay account
had always passed. Our account was temporarily suspended due to a
connection to one of my very first accounts from almost a decade ago. When
I ran that account, I accidently posted 'mature' celebrity unsigned images
(Angelina Jolie see-thru top, etc.) in the main section of ebay one too many
times. As a result the account was suspended and at the time, I never
bothered reinstating it as our original ebay account of Autograph Pros was
doing just fine without me needing to sell $5 celebrity photos. Now ebay
has software and strict rules that if you ever are connected to a previously
suspended account, all accounts are cancelled. We never did anything
illegal and while I admit it was an honest mistake, it seems much of ebay's
new policies are poor decisions as well. We were told we'd be able to get
back on in 6 months but our website and direct marketing have taken off so
well, we have no need. I don't miss the ebay fees, I don't miss the ebay
customers offering $100 on an Eric Clapton or BB King signed guitar, I don't
miss any of it. By the way, I can prove what I say to any of the regulars
if anyone is questioning my sincerity. Considering I try to provide more
photos signing and video footage of my items being signed than possibly any
other autograph dealer out there, I'd like to think my word is worth
something but I'd be happy to prove this liar wrong.
--
Michael Kasmar
www.AutographPros.com
UACC Registered Dealer #237
Accredited Better Business Member with a lifetime flawless record


"Have you joined our emailer yet? If not, please do so immediately by going
to http://www.autographpros.com/newsletter.php
"northfield" <***@aol.com> wrote in message news:4a8dafb0-a7c8-48c1-91cd-***@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On May 14, 11:42?am, "AutographPros.com"
Post by AutographPros.com
I remember when I was selling on ebay and had about 10,000 positive
feedbacks and 59 negatives. ?I'd get people not doing business with me
because I had 59 negatives. ?Those people forget that people are much more
apt to complain than to praise in many instances, and I am confident that's
the same with PSA/DNA. ?They have authenticated what, millions of
autographs? ?I can name 10 incorrect newsworthy mistakes they made, and
I'd
have to imagine there are probably 20 more that are newsworthy but never
surfaced. ?People have to remember, PSA/DNA is a target because they
excelled above the other authenticators. ?They are a target by other
'self-proclaimed' experts, and they are surely a target by FORGERS! ?A lot
of the internet bashing that PSA/DNA has taken have been posted by forgers.
Please note, I'm not referring to any of Mr. Black's posts but I've seen
countless forger blogs that push these stories making the mountain out of
the mole hill. ?The forgers don't want a proven method to prove what they
are selling is bad. ?By peddling these few stories constantly and jumping
on
every mistake, it allows them to forge and discredit all authenticators.
Also a lot of these stories are taken out of context. ?I don't recall a
non-profit organization (UACC) and it's Registered Dealer program ever
meeting and publicly voicing an opinion one way or the other on PSA/DNA.
That statement makes no sense to me, as no one asked me my opinion and I'm a
Registered Dealer.
I'm not one of these guys that bashes my competitors, never have. ?I
support
them when I see good things and I am also authenticating items so in direct
competition with PSA/DNA and could easily come in and join the bandwagon.
No where near the scale they are, and I never intend to be. ?I just base
my
judgment on what I've seen. ?I've probably seen over 5,000 items
authenticated by PSA/DNA and only a few times did I see items that were
'questionable' of these 5,000 items, and again this was just by a quick
review. ?I support what James Spence (2 or 3 newsworthy mistakes?), Rodger
Epperson, Bob Eaton, PSA/DNA, and GAI are doing, as well as my own work.
You see, when you see so many in-person autographs, it's very easy to know
the difference from the real and fakes, especially when you know when the
item was supposedly signed. ?It's like barefootmk pointed out about
Strickler having fake autographs of current films. ?His autographs looked
nothing like East or West coast examples of this year's signatures. ?Yes
people's signatures change, but not that significantly, and not when every
single other in-person example looks the same.
Do I disagree with PSA/DNA's work ethics, customer service, and policy
standards, absolutely. ?I base this on the fact that they issued COAs with
stamped signatures from authenticators that never looked at the items, and
also based on their Better Business Bureau ratings which are horrible. ?I
often wonder how many signatures they send back, stating it's outside of
their expertise. ?I can assure you I've done this with my authentication
services and refunded the payments. ?Outside of that, I feel they have
done
great things for the hobby. ?Their COA is far above an average COA in my
opinion. ?Anyone notice how many of the big name forgers that are on the
X-list are now "No Longer A Registered User" on ebay? ?This means they are
kicked off and we all know why. ?I'd dare say 90% of those large forgers
are
now off ebay and I believe it was with the help of ebay adding PSA/DNA to
it's authentication team. ?You may want to try contacting ebay and ask
them
if PSA/DNA's 'quick opinion' had any help with the removal of these forgers?
Ask them what happens if a seller gets a few of those failed PSA/DNA Quick
Opinions. ?If PSA/DNA got rid of even 1 forger, they did more for the
hobby
than most of us have, and that's a good thing if you ask me.
--
Michael Kasmarwww.AutographPros.com
UACC Registered Dealer #237
Accredited Better Business Member with a lifetime flawless record
"Have you joined our emailer yet? ?If not, please do so immediately by
going
tohttp://www.autographpros.com/newsletter.php
Post by Mr Black
Post by barefoot
probably because a lot of UACC dealers don't pass psa..
plus, those guys from autographworld are "consultants" at james
spence...so that's probably 2 reasons.
m
third times a charm...
http://www.smartmoney.com/barrons/index.cfm?story=20060303- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Interesting - you failed to state that you were kicked off eBay
because of PSA/DNA. Judging others item by sight and innuendo can
lead to serious problems down the road. It may be advisable to
abstain from that activity, especially when questions are raised about
you.
Sue H
2008-05-20 12:32:14 UTC
Permalink
I must've missed something... someone posted something about you guys?
I think a decade ago is long enough for Ebay to let whatever happened
go. That wasn't THAT huge of an infraction (though you probably
should have thunk kids surf... but today? They see more surfing for
Paris Hilton sex tapes or playing video games like Grand Theft Auto).
By the way, I saw one nude photo on Ebay just the other day not on the
mature section so obviously their software is not that great. I never
understood where the line is drawn on nudity either. Why is it
someone can paint a nude and it's ok (even if realism) but it's not
for a tasteful photo? Now I can see some are HUGE boobs or something
in very provocative poses can be said to solicit sex and made to
titillate, but where's the line?

Anyway, your problem is no biggie so why even defend it. Ignore the
trolls.

On Tue, 20 May 2008 01:57:48 -0400, "AutographPros.com"
Post by AutographPros.com
Again this person who people on this board are claiming is Strickler is
posting lies. Barefoot was not kicked off ebay for PSA/DNA violations, he
was removed for shill bidding but supposedly since then was allowed back on.
If you were referring to us, we've never once had any issue with any of our
items or account involving PSA/DNA or any incident to do with any issues
regarding authenticity for that matter. Every item ever submitted to
PSA/DNA's quick opinion from ebay bidders back when we had an ebay account
had always passed. Our account was temporarily suspended due to a
connection to one of my very first accounts from almost a decade ago. When
I ran that account, I accidently posted 'mature' celebrity unsigned images
(Angelina Jolie see-thru top, etc.) in the main section of ebay one too many
times. As a result the account was suspended and at the time, I never
bothered reinstating it as our original ebay account of Autograph Pros was
doing just fine without me needing to sell $5 celebrity photos. Now ebay
has software and strict rules that if you ever are connected to a previously
suspended account, all accounts are cancelled. We never did anything
illegal and while I admit it was an honest mistake, it seems much of ebay's
new policies are poor decisions as well. We were told we'd be able to get
back on in 6 months but our website and direct marketing have taken off so
well, we have no need. I don't miss the ebay fees, I don't miss the ebay
customers offering $100 on an Eric Clapton or BB King signed guitar, I don't
miss any of it. By the way, I can prove what I say to any of the regulars
if anyone is questioning my sincerity. Considering I try to provide more
photos signing and video footage of my items being signed than possibly any
other autograph dealer out there, I'd like to think my word is worth
something but I'd be happy to prove this liar wrong.
barefoot
2008-05-20 15:56:34 UTC
Permalink
i was booted for shill bidding...at this point, it's been obver 10
years....i was recently invited back to ebay and told them no thanks.
my web sales and sales to customers is enough...i don't want the
problems michael has had, because i'll go off on a customer that
offers me $100 for eric clapton on a guitar...it's hard enough for me
to just say "good luck getting it yourself." without socking that
person in the eye.
shoot, even having a retail space, i've thrown people out of the
building for offering like $50 for something worth $300...

and isn't northfield the strickler guy/girl...that person should STOP
posting until they give us their real identity...
just like strickler, this person doesn't even try to debate that she's
not strickler.
m
a***@yahoo.com
2008-05-20 21:58:03 UTC
Permalink
because i'll go off on a customer that
offers me $100 for eric clapton on a guitar...it's hard enough for me
to just say "good luck getting it yourself." without socking that
person in the eye.
shoot, even having a retail space, i've thrown people out of the
<building for offering like $50 for something worth $300...

More BS. I've heard you run like a girl from a fair fight and next
time you're out in public, I'll put it to the test.
barefoot
2008-05-21 04:01:13 UTC
Permalink
whatever..i doubt you'll even let me know who you are...loser!
m

Mr Black
2008-05-20 11:48:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by AutographPros.com
- Show quoted text -
Interesting - you failed to state that you were kicked off eBay
because of PSA/DNA. Judging others item by sight and innuendo can
lead to serious problems down the road. It may be advisable to
abstain from that activity, especially when questions are raised about
you. <

Nice try, but we all know barefoot was booted for shill bidding; the
authenticity of his items was not in question.
You should do some research rather than merely make accusations.
So take some of your own advice, as "it may be advisable to
abstain from that activity"
chip1057
2008-05-14 19:25:33 UTC
Permalink
It could be they didn't want to pay for the membership, or there were
too many complaints about
them.

Chip
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/autographdc
Post by Sue H
Just noticed the area on UACC where they list their approved
authenticators and I noticed PSADNA is not on there.  Why is that?
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